Vragen en oproepen van lezers
Families Velthuizen Weil (Malang) en De Knoop (Bandoeng)
Met de tijd schijnbaar voorbij vliegend, lijkt het onderhand haast onmogelijk te worden, maar ik hoop nog steeds iemand te treffen die mijn familie destijds in Bandoeng (of Malang) heeft gekend.
Mijn oma van vaderskant (op de foto hiernaast, samen met mijn opa) was Jacoba Johanna (“Zus”) Velthuizen Weil, dochter van Frederik Velthuizen Weil, assistant- resident te Bandoeng (1930-1936) en Malang (1937-?) en overleden kamp Halmaheira 6-12-1944, en J. van der Hilst. Mijn oma had een zuster Frieda Velthuizen Weil, gehuwd met J. Jonker.
Mijn opa van vaderskant was Jan Justus de Knoop, zoon van bouwkundige Jan de Knoop (naar verluidt was zwembad Tjihampelas van zijn hand) en E. de Knoop-Bos. Mijn opa werkte zelf bij de Denis Bank in Bandoeng. Hij had een zuster Betty de Knoop, gehuwd met F. Sandbergen.
Mijn oma en opa hadden drie kinderen: mijn vader Jan Frits de Knoop (geboren 15 januari 1940) en zijn twee zusters Cynthia en Frieda de Knoop. De kinderen hebben met hun moeder gevangen gezeten in Ambarawa 9 en Banjoebiroe 10. Mijn opa Jan Justus de Knoop is overleden in Palembang op 18-09-1944; begraven op ereveld Pandu. Zijn weduwe Johanna Velthuizen Weill huwde later met W.F. Rube. Zij is overleden in 1984.
Dankzij de historische kranten op de website van de Koninklijke Bibliotheek ben ik aardig op weg om o.a. mijn overgrootvaders carrière in kaart te brengen.
Maar een beetje meer persoonlijke verhalen over al deze mensen zou ik ook leuk vinden. Omdat ik ze – begrijpelijk – niet of nauwelijks gekend heb. Is er iemand bij wie bij deze namen een belletje rinkelt? Ik zou zo graag meer over hun levens daar te weten komen.
Ellen de Knoop
I would like to react to this story. My parents, Henk and Anna de Groot lived in the city of Malang, Java from the year 1926 on until the second world war came, and my father was sent to the Burma Railway camp and my mother and her 3 daughters, Carla, Marijke and my self, Sietske were interned in camps on the island of Java.
So am now wondering if there could be any one out there, some family member, who may remember my parents from those years.
Looking forward from hear from you.
Sadly all my familymembers that i could have asked passed away. Only my father and his sister are alive but they were too young back then to remember anybody. Hopefully someone else reads your comment and remebers your family.
Kind regards, Ellen
Thank you for replying to my question. My parents and sisters have died, and like you, I never asked question, which now, looking back, was silly.
Wishing you all the best for the future.
Reading all the posts on several sites in the days before world war two, I understand, there was a separate way of living between indos and totoks. I guess that might be the reason not too many indos might know the people on the shown pictures.
R. Geenen, I guess that the middle aged gentleman standing to the far right, next to Justus, (photo in sepia) definitely is an Indo wearing oversized rags. On the other hand it appears to me that in the background the bare bushes reveal a wintry European environment rather than one in South East Asia.
I am very well aware that my grandparents were from dutch origin, or totoks as you like to call them, but this website does not strike me as indos only, to me it is a website where people of all origin can find eachother because they have a history in a certain period in a certain country in common. This for me is about my family, about a grandfather i have never gotten to know, about my grandmother who died when i was 9 yrs old, is it crazy that i’d like to know more about them? I’m sorry i may react a bit sensitive, but your remark touches me as if it’s no bother asking because they were dutch.
E. de Knoop,
Sorry about your reaction. I just want you to know, because of the past and the attitude of many of the people against each other in the period before WW2, a white person has little change that an indo might know your family. How can an indo know the names of a totok family, if they keep living separate in those days. There is a greater change that a totok might know your family than an indo.
Or have not you noticed all the articles on the website?
I am an indo of 76 and I really do not know one “white” family from the old dutch indisch.
Ronny Geenen – Also I am a little puzzled about your statements herein. Do you mean that there was no interaction between full – and mixed blood Dutchies. My family albums show to the contrary. School photos, after school activities, bridge parties, company functions, weddings and rame-rame outings – all showing a pleasant mix of ‘colours’.
And you claim that these people did not know each other and exercised ‘apartheid’?
Also I got the impression from your two reactions that you feel that Ellen is on the wrong website, meaning that this webside is for Indos only. I sincerely hope that this is not the case!
Have just read your reply to Ronny Greenen, and I fully agree with your comments. I can remember seeing photos in my parents’ albums having a good ‘friendship’ with their baboes and jongosen, and on one of my parents ‘holiday trips to Holland in the early 1930’s’ one of the baboes came along to take care of my 2 older sisters, I wasn’t born yet.
And I am sure a lot of people who worked for the white people will have known their christian and surnames.
Huray for you Bill
Mr. of Mrs. R. Geenen,
With all due respect, but if it would be impossible to find response to my question here, i don’t think Mr. Visser would have taken the time on his sunday to create the piece shown above.
My grandmother was born and raised in Malang, left Indonesia after she was over 35 yrs of age and i find it unimaginable that she would have never had any contact with an indonesian person all that time. As people here mentioned, she had baboes in her life, and i clearly recall stories of her playing with their children and always hanging around in the kitchen to learn how to cook. Plus they were friends with indo families too. So eventhough your vision is clear about history’s lack of interactions between people, i still have the chance and right to ask my question here, indo or totok (as you like to call them). Have a good day.
herstel, dat moest uiteraard Mr. Immerzeel zijn i.p.v. Visser, sorry.
I was born in 1954 and have no family connections to our colonial past. I got connected to our colonial past after I met first Moluccan kids and kids with Dutch East Indies roots like totoks and Indo’s as some like to classify them at my schools. I’m very pleased that I met them and they became part of my life. In all their stories of the past I never heard anything about racism or apartheid. After visiting Indonesia many times I’m sure there was a kind off apartheid towards the different groups of people. Locals could not go to a Dutch school, even they spoke Dutch they were not allowed to use in a court of justice, certain jobs in the government were not for them and so on.. I’m still meeting Indo’s and locals in Indonesia and never heard a bad word about the Dutch, they were disappointed in the way they were left behind and were easy targets for the gangs and revolutionaries during the Indonesian independence struggle. Would we have given them their merdeka inmediately, a lot of killings could have been prevented and could we have been part of their new nation. But what have we left after the Political Wars, we still don’t accept 17-08-45 as their independence day , Indonesia became a new colony in which people from outside Java were colonialized on their islands. Ethnic cleansing is still going on on the Molucan Islands, New Guinea, Sumatra (Atjeh) Borneo and Celebes, all in name of the new powers called Orde Baru. Should we talk about it on this website? I think not! I’m glad I still meet people in Holland with Dutch East Indies roots, locals, totoks, Indo’s, Moluccans, Papuans etc. and I’m still helping them during my journeys in Indonesia to find their beloved ones, mostly on graveyards, and I feel that as my duty since I’m ashamed of the way they were and still are treated by my government , royal family and the rest of the world (UN). Please help others with their past
as I still do.